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	<title>Comments on: Substantive Debate vs Pot Shots vs Mudslinging</title>
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	<description>Questions through the veil of ignorance</description>
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		<title>By: ChrisB</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/04/substantive-debate-vs-pot-shots-vs-mudslinging/comment-page-1/#comment-225400</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Interesting smeers on someone in actual leadership positions (mayor and governor).
 No doubt the person who wrote this is a lawyer. Only a lawyer would think that sitting in a state Senate building or sitting on the Senate Foreign Relations Comittee amounts to anything.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

not a lawyer, but those are actual arguments, which is what we want in a discussion. I would counter the welfare point by noting that she sharply reduced the federal dollars flowing into the state in her first year, limiting funds to already in place programs and new ones that had a federal tie in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Interesting smeers on someone in actual leadership positions (mayor and governor).<br />
 No doubt the person who wrote this is a lawyer. Only a lawyer would think that sitting in a state Senate building or sitting on the Senate Foreign Relations Comittee amounts to anything.</p></blockquote>
<p>not a lawyer, but those are actual arguments, which is what we want in a discussion. I would counter the welfare point by noting that she sharply reduced the federal dollars flowing into the state in her first year, limiting funds to already in place programs and new ones that had a federal tie in.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisB</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/04/substantive-debate-vs-pot-shots-vs-mudslinging/comment-page-1/#comment-225399</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=5239#comment-225399</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;No, a focus only on “substantive issues” like policy leads one to consider nutballs like Nadar and Ron Paul.
 Real substance includes experience, persoanlsiy (including character), and policy ideals&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You think Ron Paul doesn&#039;t have experience? You&#039;re right about character no doubt, but note that wasn&#039;t discounted in the argument you&#039;re responding to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>No, a focus only on “substantive issues” like policy leads one to consider nutballs like Nadar and Ron Paul.<br />
 Real substance includes experience, persoanlsiy (including character), and policy ideals</p></blockquote>
<p>You think Ron Paul doesn&#8217;t have experience? You&#8217;re right about character no doubt, but note that wasn&#8217;t discounted in the argument you&#8217;re responding to.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/04/substantive-debate-vs-pot-shots-vs-mudslinging/comment-page-1/#comment-225394</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=5239#comment-225394</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Huh. So 6 years as a part-time mayor of 8,500 (while racking up a $20 million debt), and 21 months running the biggest state welfare recipient in the country equals 8 years in a &lt;/em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/04/substantive-debate-vs-pot-shots-vs-mudslinging/#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;state senate&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;em&gt; while teaching law at a top university and four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee? Remind me how that’s more, or better experience, please. Math is obvi not my strength.

&lt;/em&gt;Interesting smeers on someone in actual leadership positions (mayor and governor).
No doubt the person who wrote this is a lawyer. Only a lawyer would think that sitting in a state Senate building or sitting on the Senate Foreign Relations Comittee amounts to anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Huh. So 6 years as a part-time mayor of 8,500 (while racking up a $20 million debt), and 21 months running the biggest state welfare recipient in the country equals 8 years in a </em><a href="http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/04/substantive-debate-vs-pot-shots-vs-mudslinging/#" rel="nofollow"><em>state senate</em></a><em> while teaching law at a top university and four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee? Remind me how that’s more, or better experience, please. Math is obvi not my strength.</p>
<p></em>Interesting smeers on someone in actual leadership positions (mayor and governor).<br />
No doubt the person who wrote this is a lawyer. Only a lawyer would think that sitting in a state Senate building or sitting on the Senate Foreign Relations Comittee amounts to anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/04/substantive-debate-vs-pot-shots-vs-mudslinging/comment-page-1/#comment-225393</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=5239#comment-225393</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I’m just saying. The “experience” argument is a shallow one, and avoids the more substantive issues of the election. For both sides.

&lt;/em&gt;No, a focus only on &quot;substantive issues&quot; like policy leads one to consider nutballs like Nadar and Ron Paul.
Real substance includes experience, persoanlsiy (including character), and policy ideals. 

&lt;em&gt;Moreover, Obama doesn’t have half the experience you’re giving him credit for. For example, “four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee”? He’s been running for POTUS for the last two years, reliably absent from Congress for the large majority of that time. Not exactly real foreign policy experience, is it? 

&lt;/em&gt;What does the Senate Foreign Relations Committee have to do with foreighn policy experience?
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13809&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13809&lt;/a&gt;

Quote:

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Most people don&#039;t realize that the SFRC is one of the dustier corners of the Senate, largely populated with snoozing Rhodes Scholars, UN-firsters, and people who intuitively know how to pronounce the name of Kyrgyzstan and how to use it in a sentence. Occasionally someone gets on the committee who is more interested in American relations with other countries, rather than their foreign relations with us, and that wakes up the committee. Usually, ambitious politicians go elsewhere. The committee&#039;s main business is to pass the Foreign Relations act, which authorizes money for the State Department and its overseas operations. Occasionally, a treaty wanders by. Sometimes the SFRC doesn&#039;t have the clout to get its bills to the Senate Floor, so it gets ignored while all of its functions are packaged into the appropriations bills, without new authorization. 

No Senator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee has authority under the U.S. Constitution to conduct foreign relations or to negotiate treaties. That&#039;s why Biden has no experience in foreign relations, and Palin does. He just talks about foreign policy, and talks...and talks. Biden&#039;s long tenure on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is not necessarily a red badge of courage. He thinks he has experience, but most of his experience is wrong. We can look at a few examples of the results of his experience, and ask What Would Sara Palin Do?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I’m just saying. The “experience” argument is a shallow one, and avoids the more substantive issues of the election. For both sides.</p>
<p></em>No, a focus only on &#8220;substantive issues&#8221; like policy leads one to consider nutballs like Nadar and Ron Paul.<br />
Real substance includes experience, persoanlsiy (including character), and policy ideals. </p>
<p><em>Moreover, Obama doesn’t have half the experience you’re giving him credit for. For example, “four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee”? He’s been running for POTUS for the last two years, reliably absent from Congress for the large majority of that time. Not exactly real foreign policy experience, is it? </p>
<p></em>What does the Senate Foreign Relations Committee have to do with foreighn policy experience?<br />
<a href="http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13809" rel="nofollow">http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13809</a></p>
<p>Quote:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;Most people don&#8217;t realize that the SFRC is one of the dustier corners of the Senate, largely populated with snoozing Rhodes Scholars, UN-firsters, and people who intuitively know how to pronounce the name of Kyrgyzstan and how to use it in a sentence. Occasionally someone gets on the committee who is more interested in American relations with other countries, rather than their foreign relations with us, and that wakes up the committee. Usually, ambitious politicians go elsewhere. The committee&#8217;s main business is to pass the Foreign Relations act, which authorizes money for the State Department and its overseas operations. Occasionally, a treaty wanders by. Sometimes the SFRC doesn&#8217;t have the clout to get its bills to the Senate Floor, so it gets ignored while all of its functions are packaged into the appropriations bills, without new authorization. </p>
<p>No Senator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee has authority under the U.S. Constitution to conduct foreign relations or to negotiate treaties. That&#8217;s why Biden has no experience in foreign relations, and Palin does. He just talks about foreign policy, and talks&#8230;and talks. Biden&#8217;s long tenure on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is not necessarily a red badge of courage. He thinks he has experience, but most of his experience is wrong. We can look at a few examples of the results of his experience, and ask What Would Sara Palin Do?&#8221;</em></p>
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