Comments on: The Lie of Hybrid Cars http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/ Questions through the veil of ignorance Thu, 17 May 2012 04:17:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Synova http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-201822 Synova Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:58:59 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-201822 "If a large number of Americans bought a car that got on average even ten miles per gallon more, we would..." ...drive more.   "Even biodiesels produce carbon monoxide." Hybrids are a much more responsible idea that biofuels, which by their nature support large mono-culture farming which *is* directly harmful to the environment, linked to significant chemical run-off and pollution (real pollution, which carbon monoxide is *not*) and artificially and unnecessarily drive up food prices.   “If a large number of Americans bought a car that got on average even ten miles per gallon more, we would…”

…drive more.
 
“Even biodiesels produce carbon monoxide.”
Hybrids are a much more responsible idea that biofuels, which by their nature support large mono-culture farming which *is* directly harmful to the environment, linked to significant chemical run-off and pollution (real pollution, which carbon monoxide is *not*) and artificially and unnecessarily drive up food prices.
 

]]> By: DWan http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-201619 DWan Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:13:37 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-201619 The great protest against hybrids is absurd. So they don't save thousands of dollars on gas? Big deal; saving on gas mileage will definitely reduce emissions.  Compare the Prius at its worst possible gas mileage to the average family sedan, and there's a huge difference in gas mileage.  Great idea to buy a diesel, but how many options are there in the United States for that, other than trucks, which with their inefficiency kind of defeats the purpose?   This is why environmental problems are getting worse and worse.  People can't see the big picture.  If a large number of Americans bought a car that got on average even ten miles per gallon more, we would greatly reduce the amount of toxic fumes we were spitting into the atmosphere.  But, I suppose that since it isn't completely solving the problem, or since it costs a little bit more to buy those cars, it makes it a bad idea.  It's illogical to reject a partial solution to such a huge problem just because it is only a partial solution.  In the scenario of global warming, a partial solution will take us one step closer to a full solution.  Think ahead.   Of course, add to it things like diesel engines.  Americans need to think ahead to buy into that option as well, though and we have to be realistic and acknowledge that diesel is just as damaging to the environment as other types of gasoline.  Even biodiesels produce carbon monoxide.  Don't disparage what hybrids can do for us just because they aren't an immediate and cheap and complete solution to a problem that has taken over a century to create.  If people would buy into the idea that solving the problem is necessary and take even the small measures available, like diesel with its better gas mileage or hybrids with their better gas mileage despite your poorly informed denial, we could, as one of the most powerful economies in the world, make a huge difference in getting the process started.  We have to remember that the world over, environmentally safe cars, industrial practices, manufacturing processes, etc. are at best a difficult option and far from popular.  Any movement toward changing that is a positive movement.   Yes, we need to be realistic, and yes, we need to come up with better options, but when will it be enough?  When there is a car that spits gold out the tailpipe and is free?  What do you expect?    The great protest against hybrids is absurd. So they don’t save thousands of dollars on gas? Big deal; saving on gas mileage will definitely reduce emissions.  Compare the Prius at its worst possible gas mileage to the average family sedan, and there’s a huge difference in gas mileage.  Great idea to buy a diesel, but how many options are there in the United States for that, other than trucks, which with their inefficiency kind of defeats the purpose?  
This is why environmental problems are getting worse and worse.  People can’t see the big picture.  If a large number of Americans bought a car that got on average even ten miles per gallon more, we would greatly reduce the amount of toxic fumes we were spitting into the atmosphere.  But, I suppose that since it isn’t completely solving the problem, or since it costs a little bit more to buy those cars, it makes it a bad idea.  It’s illogical to reject a partial solution to such a huge problem just because it is only a partial solution.  In the scenario of global warming, a partial solution will take us one step closer to a full solution.  Think ahead.  
Of course, add to it things like diesel engines.  Americans need to think ahead to buy into that option as well, though and we have to be realistic and acknowledge that diesel is just as damaging to the environment as other types of gasoline.  Even biodiesels produce carbon monoxide.  Don’t disparage what hybrids can do for us just because they aren’t an immediate and cheap and complete solution to a problem that has taken over a century to create.  If people would buy into the idea that solving the problem is necessary and take even the small measures available, like diesel with its better gas mileage or hybrids with their better gas mileage despite your poorly informed denial, we could, as one of the most powerful economies in the world, make a huge difference in getting the process started.  We have to remember that the world over, environmentally safe cars, industrial practices, manufacturing processes, etc. are at best a difficult option and far from popular.  Any movement toward changing that is a positive movement.   Yes, we need to be realistic, and yes, we need to come up with better options, but when will it be enough?  When there is a car that spits gold out the tailpipe and is free?  What do you expect?   

]]> By: Don http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-169026 Don Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:45:49 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-169026 Where I work, we have special hybrid parking. Near the handicaped parking. Where I work, we have special hybrid parking. Near the handicaped parking.

]]> By: ChrisB http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-168721 ChrisB Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:43:04 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-168721 I've seen guinness and boddingtons, though always go for bottled, or preferably draught guinness. Did not know about murphy's or bellhaven though. Also some local brew up in Colorado comes in cans, Dale's Pale Ale and Old Chub. I’ve seen guinness and boddingtons, though always go for bottled, or preferably draught guinness.

Did not know about murphy’s or bellhaven though. Also some local brew up in Colorado comes in cans, Dale’s Pale Ale and Old Chub.

]]> By: PogueMahone http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-168675 PogueMahone Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:15:40 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-168675 <blockquote>I only buy bottles. Not many good beers come in cans.</blockquote> Guinness, Boddingtons, Murphy's, and others come in those 'best thing since sliced bread' draught cans with the special widgets. Bellhaven and a few others taste fine out of a can as well. Just fyi... Enjoy!

I only buy bottles. Not many good beers come in cans.

Guinness, Boddingtons, Murphy’s, and others come in those ‘best thing since sliced bread’ draught cans with the special widgets.

Bellhaven and a few others taste fine out of a can as well.

Just fyi…

Enjoy!

]]> By: Maria http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-168342 Maria Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:42:31 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-168342 kindred spirit over @ velvetron: http://www.velvetron.com/blog/cars_and_transportation/the-toyota-prius-sucks/ kindred spirit over @ velvetron:

http://www.velvetron.com/blog/cars_and_transportation/the-toyota-prius-sucks/

]]> By: ChrisB http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-168337 ChrisB Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:39:55 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-168337 I only buy bottles. Not many good beers come in cans. I only buy bottles. Not many good beers come in cans.

]]> By: Joshua Foust http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-167712 Joshua Foust Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:49:45 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-167712 I think everyone should buy kegerators to reduce their aluminum consumption. That is a stellar idea! I think everyone should buy kegerators to reduce their aluminum consumption. That is a stellar idea!

]]> By: PogueMahone http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-166808 PogueMahone Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:31:47 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-166808 So what you are suggesting is that it is not necessarily drivers of <em>hybrids</em> that are smug, but drivers of the <em>Prius</em>. I don’t know, maybe you’re right. I still see little cause to frame drivers of the Prius as smug. It’s a blanket statement that in my experience just isn’t true. Linda drove an Accord before… could be just brand loyalty. Which makes sense because Toyota makes good cars, and <a href="http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/06/206830.html" rel="nofollow">people know it</a>. When it comes to four cylinder engines, I’m a big fan… It’s my impression that Toyotas never die, they just fade away. But again, maybe you’re right. But I will say this, that even though one’s motivation to buy a hybrid, even a Prius, be vanity in nature, the simple fact that one wishes to be seen, and therefore promote, the use of environmentally friendly consumer products is not necessarily a bad thing. Albeit that their purchases, for the cause of environmentalism, maybe unwise. Being environmental is a noble cause. Like you I would assume, I wish to steer them into wise choices about environmentally friendly consumer products. I realize that a lot of so-called earth friendly behaviors are not necessarily in the interest of the planet. I know that recycling, for example, doesn’t always favor the environment. That it takes more energy to recycle certain products than it takes to create the new. And it is unfortunate that a lot of people buy into these ideas. The only thing that I recycled were aluminum cans. But since I bought my <a href="http://www.beveragefactory.com/refrigerators/beer/sanyo.shtml" rel="nofollow">kegerator</a>, I’ve decrease my aluminum can consumption… and my work productivity. I tell you what, though. I’ve got advice for anyone wanting to do something for the environment… Keep and raise honeybees. Even if it’s just a couple of hives. Your carbon footprint would be reduced immeasurably. Hell, as a commercial beekeeper, my carbon footprint is so far in the negative, I burn tires just as to not embarrass anyone. Cheers. So what you are suggesting is that it is not necessarily drivers of hybrids that are smug, but drivers of the Prius.
I don’t know, maybe you’re right.

I still see little cause to frame drivers of the Prius as smug. It’s a blanket statement that in my experience just isn’t true. Linda drove an Accord before… could be just brand loyalty. Which makes sense because Toyota makes good cars, and people know it. When it comes to four cylinder engines, I’m a big fan… It’s my impression that Toyotas never die, they just fade away.

But again, maybe you’re right.
But I will say this, that even though one’s motivation to buy a hybrid, even a Prius, be vanity in nature, the simple fact that one wishes to be seen, and therefore promote, the use of environmentally friendly consumer products is not necessarily a bad thing. Albeit that their purchases, for the cause of environmentalism, maybe unwise.
Being environmental is a noble cause. Like you I would assume, I wish to steer them into wise choices about environmentally friendly consumer products.

I realize that a lot of so-called earth friendly behaviors are not necessarily in the interest of the planet. I know that recycling, for example, doesn’t always favor the environment. That it takes more energy to recycle certain products than it takes to create the new. And it is unfortunate that a lot of people buy into these ideas.
The only thing that I recycled were aluminum cans. But since I bought my kegerator, I’ve decrease my aluminum can consumption… and my work productivity.

I tell you what, though. I’ve got advice for anyone wanting to do something for the environment… Keep and raise honeybees. Even if it’s just a couple of hives. Your carbon footprint would be reduced immeasurably.

Hell, as a commercial beekeeper, my carbon footprint is so far in the negative, I burn tires just as to not embarrass anyone.

Cheers.

]]> By: Joshua Foust http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-165890 Joshua Foust Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:58:30 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-165890 Pogue, I'd agree with you except for the salient fact that hybrid models of conventional cars, like the Honda Civic, don't sell. The hybrid models that sell in any appreciable number are cars like the Prius, which <i>look</i> like hybrids. In other words, and there have been several studies about this, most people who drive hybrids want to be seen driving hybrids. So even if there is a legit element of environmentalism in the decision, there is still a great big slice of vanity to go along with it, otherwise you'd see hybrid versions of normal cars flying off the showrooms. Pogue, I’d agree with you except for the salient fact that hybrid models of conventional cars, like the Honda Civic, don’t sell. The hybrid models that sell in any appreciable number are cars like the Prius, which look like hybrids. In other words, and there have been several studies about this, most people who drive hybrids want to be seen driving hybrids. So even if there is a legit element of environmentalism in the decision, there is still a great big slice of vanity to go along with it, otherwise you’d see hybrid versions of normal cars flying off the showrooms.

]]> By: PogueMahone http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-165319 PogueMahone Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:04:58 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-165319 Of course you are right about diesels. A friend of mine had a VW Rabbit diesel twenty years ago and it got more than 50mpg… <em>twenty years ago</em>. Funny thing about that VW, once it was parked in the street and was completely submerged in a flood caused by a huge thunderstorm. After a few days drying out, it started right up – I’m crapping you negative. I myself drive a diesel Dodge one ton dually and it gets decent mileage given how big and heavy it is (though my father claimed his diesel Ford one ton dually got crap mileage). But I do take small issue with the notion that hybrid drivers are smug, self-righteous conceits. Where there are no doubt hippy yuppies that drive hybrids and are known to gather with their contemporaries to look down upon high over a nice bottle of pinot, not all hybrid drivers are like that. And I would be hesitant to believe that even <em>most</em> hybrid drivers are like that – despite the assuredly funny mocking from Parker and Stone (who’s mocking of smugness doesn’t come without its own taste of irony, dontcha’ think?). I know two people who drive hybrids and I’ve never heard either of them being smug or self-satisfied over their choice of vehicle. When my friend Linda, one of the nicest persons I know, wanted to buy a hybrid, I told her that she may want to look more closely at the purchase and that hybrids are not all what they are hyped to be. I tried to convince her that a diesel would be a smarter choice concerning mileage. She complained that diesels, it seemed to her, were smelly, loud, smog machines with no power. I tried in vein to convince her that modern day diesels are anything but. That one can buy a nice turbo-diesel that is relatively clean and powerful, and that when you are driving it you don’t smell or hear anything unusual. But unfortunately, she bought into the hybrid ideal. I guess my point is that if you happen to see a nice, comely young woman driving down the road in a hybrid, you shouldn’t assume that she smells her own farts and is stuck up her own ass. Unlike Parker and Stone no doubt. Cheers. Of course you are right about diesels.
A friend of mine had a VW Rabbit diesel twenty years ago and it got more than 50mpg… twenty years ago. Funny thing about that VW, once it was parked in the street and was completely submerged in a flood caused by a huge thunderstorm. After a few days drying out, it started right up – I’m crapping you negative.
I myself drive a diesel Dodge one ton dually and it gets decent mileage given how big and heavy it is (though my father claimed his diesel Ford one ton dually got crap mileage).

But I do take small issue with the notion that hybrid drivers are smug, self-righteous conceits. Where there are no doubt hippy yuppies that drive hybrids and are known to gather with their contemporaries to look down upon high over a nice bottle of pinot, not all hybrid drivers are like that. And I would be hesitant to believe that even most hybrid drivers are like that – despite the assuredly funny mocking from Parker and Stone (who’s mocking of smugness doesn’t come without its own taste of irony, dontcha’ think?).

I know two people who drive hybrids and I’ve never heard either of them being smug or self-satisfied over their choice of vehicle.

When my friend Linda, one of the nicest persons I know, wanted to buy a hybrid, I told her that she may want to look more closely at the purchase and that hybrids are not all what they are hyped to be. I tried to convince her that a diesel would be a smarter choice concerning mileage. She complained that diesels, it seemed to her, were smelly, loud, smog machines with no power. I tried in vein to convince her that modern day diesels are anything but. That one can buy a nice turbo-diesel that is relatively clean and powerful, and that when you are driving it you don’t smell or hear anything unusual. But unfortunately, she bought into the hybrid ideal.

I guess my point is that if you happen to see a nice, comely young woman driving down the road in a hybrid, you shouldn’t assume that she smells her own farts and is stuck up her own ass. Unlike Parker and Stone no doubt.

Cheers.

]]> By: Lance http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-164945 Lance Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:08:10 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-164945 Cool, I always expected once Keith came on board we would see more car blogging. Nice of you to pick up the slack. Cool, I always expected once Keith came on board we would see more car blogging. Nice of you to pick up the slack.

]]> By: Keith_Indy http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-164926 Keith_Indy Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:59:55 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-164926 I've said as much before... http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/08/09/americans-addicted-to-freedom/ IIRC, the US is changing the emissions regulations on diesel in 2009. Most of the manufacturers have been working towards that standard, and should have diesel products out for the 2009 model year that meet it. http://www.dieselforum.org/technology-spotlight/auto-show-announcements/neste/5/?type=98 I’ve said as much before…

http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/08/09/americans-addicted-to-freedom/

IIRC, the US is changing the emissions regulations on diesel in 2009. Most of the manufacturers have been working towards that standard, and should have diesel products out for the 2009 model year that meet it.

http://www.dieselforum.org/technology-spotlight/auto-show-announcements/neste/5/?type=98

]]> By: ChrisB http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-163590 ChrisB Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:05:13 +0000 http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/03/24/the-lie-of-hybrid-cars/#comment-163590 Completely agree. I just bought a new vehicle last year, but I'm hoping the next one I buy will be a diesel. Completely agree. I just bought a new vehicle last year, but I’m hoping the next one I buy will be a diesel.

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