One of the sadder aspects of Ronpaul’s candidacy is how many people (who can barely afford to do so), have been convinced to give well over their means to his campaign. My friend Jason has a co-worker who he believes took out a second mortgage solely to give more money to Ronpaul, convinced that he was “America’s LAST CHANCE!!!” A commenter on a Vaughn Ververs post at CBS News isn’t sympathetic to their plight, but he does tell the truth: “LOL. Ron Paul pulled off the perfect swindle of his fawning disciples. He took them for $30 million, most of which he did not spend, and now will two-step on back to Texas with the rest of the loot.” What do you suppose he will do with that enormous windfall? We might soon see “Director of Ronpaul Institute” appearing under Lew Rockwell’s name.
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Have you ever noticed that Ronpaulist fanatics always have more exclamation points than points?
chris lawton is a parody right? I mean “Makes your ron paul life better and more fun”? I don’t know what to say.
It’s a habit they have in trying to maximize the number of times you can say “Ron Paul” in any post or comment, in order to enhance the phrase’s SEO. They’re still under the impression that they can googlebomb the guy into the nomination. At least they seem to be restricting it to content that is specific to Ronpaul these days. This was getting annoying fast.
hey jackass I mean lee. What’s your problem? What issue could you possibly have with Ron Paul? All the man is saying, is that we need to remember that document called the US Constitution. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. Pick a copy up some time, you might find it very educational. Ron Paul talks about fiscal responsibility, a strong economy, immigration reform. He talks about the dollar turning into the Peso. You want to talk about National Security, lets talk about foreign governments buying up our businesses and prime real estate because the dollar is so weak. Now that’s a true threat to our freedom. Lets borrow billions of dollars from China, Saudi Arabia, Japan and others to keep up “The war on Terror” . It’s killing our economy! The only issue people seem to be hung up on is his stance on Iraq. We can’t afford this war anymore! Hey I’m no open toe Jesus creeper wearing libral. I’m all for revenge for 9-11. Hey we went after the wrong bad guy. Ron Paul is a great American. So hey, Lee go vote for that libral John McCain and leave us alone. Another freaking Neo con who thinks he’s informed! Whatever Lee!!!!!
so to get this straight, eagle’s only objection is the fact that anyone’s said anything remotely bad about his preferred candidate? We should not criticize Ron Paul because he’s your preferred candidate? There’s plenty not to like about ron paul (against vouchers, into pork, for a fair tax, naive on defense, he’s a conspiracy theorist that thinks there’s some north american union coming, ect) , and there’s plenty to like (against govt spending, wants to roll back govt, lower taxes, ect).
but really most people’s problem with Paul is his followers. Their blind messianic loyalty, their spamming tactics, their paranoid conspiracy theories involving 9/11, the NAU, CPAC, and jews.
Hmm…
You have a friend who knows a guy who he believes he took out a second mortgage. Well that sounds rock solid.
Tells the truth!? More likely he speculates without evidence. Seems to be common among blogs, especially regarding Paul. This one included. So not only is Paul a racist (no evidence), he is a swindler as well (no evidence).
Nice.
Truth is, you have no idea what Paul is going to do. He may run again in 2012 with a substantial war chest already in hand. I have no idea. And I don’t care, none of his money is mine, but the people who gave it to him gave it freely and enthusiastically. Your friend of a friend of a friend not withstanding, I’m sure a lot of Paul’s donors gave him money knowing full well that Paul wouldn’t win the nod, but gave it to him anyway. Perhaps it’s money well spent just to get ideas of small government out there.
At least Paul is still in the race, not so much for Fred Thompson. Say, did Thompson supporters get swindled???
I mean, it’s easy to argue that Thompson never really wanted to win anyway. Yet he still took donations. And I wonder what Thompson is going to do with all of that new recognition.
I’m just wondering.
Though I reckon I’ve got plenty of ego, I guess I’m just not smug enough to call him a swindler.
Pogue,
Now maybe I missed it, but I don’t think anybody here has called him a racist. I think I am the one who posted on that topic, and given what happened later, I guess my comment that he seemed to be doing everything he could to address racism in a way that essentially left racists okay with it, was pretty damn spot on. I pointed out then that there was a significant racist nutter factor in the libertarian world, especially confederate apologists, and I even pointed to Lew Rockwell and company. My point then, and now, is that Ron has been at minimum allowing people like that to view him as one of them.
You can say the same for his playing with the truthers and other conspiracy theorists.
Given what has happened since I wrote that, do you really want to argue that? It seems to me my point was not only valid, but damn well generous to the man?
I don’t hate Paul, and I have voted for him, but let us all acknowledge that under the glare are some serious issues. He may not be a racist, but he has no problem allowing those who do to see him as an ally and frankly has generally addressed racism in the same manner David Duke did when he was trying to be respectable. People fell for Duke’s slick schtick too. Maybe Ron isn’t a racist, but his rhetoric should be less obfuscatory than David Duke’s if he wants to get any credit from me.
Yeah, I know. It’s the whole “I don’t think Paul is a racist, but he sure sounds like one.”
And despite Paul calling racism “ugly” and “a problem”, you like others, don’t seem to think that Paul’s address on the issue satisfied the doubts hoisted upon him by… well… you and others like you. Too bad. He didn’t satisfy your criteria for adequately admonishing racism… despite calling it “ugly” and “a problem”. You seem to think that … despite calling racism “ugly” and “a problem”, Paul must satisfy demands set on him by those using, at best, questionable suspicions.
Now I’m not a huge supporter of Paul, but I did identify with him with his refusal to bow to certain politically correct crusaders. I, like him, would tell you to rightfully go f*ck yourself.
Paul didn’t satisfy you enough. Well that’s all fine and good. You are, of course, entitled to your beliefs. However, one cannot simply insinuate that Paul is a racist… which is of course what you did, wittingly or not, and not expect that those who might identify with Paul, like me, would state that you had no evidence that Paul is a racist. Which of course you don’t.
I’m sorry, did David Duke ever call racism “ugly” or “a problem”???
Did you just skip over that part in Paul’s address???
And now you have this Lee character suggesting that not only is Paul a Lew Rockwell racist, but a swindler to boot. Without any evidence of course.
And the rhetoric from Lee should be less obfuscatory if you want any credit from me.
IOW…
Man up!! (oops, I used exclamation marks… I must be insane.)
“Swindler”….
Show me your cards, motherf*cker.
My guess is, you’re holding sh*t.
Well, if you didn’t, I will: Ronpaul is a racist. Now watch them go berserk.
As I suspected.
You’re holding sh*t.
Something I suppose you’re used to.
After a while, all of your sh*t starts to smell the same. It starts to saturate the air.
[sniff sniff]
no matter how you try to disguise it…
[sniff sniff]
Yeah, you still smell like sh*t.
Unless you’re pioneering some new aromatic technology for the internet, I’d say that’s probably a local problem you have there Pogue.
Maybe. But it seems to only come up when I read your shite.
Now I assume that it is psychosomatic.
Nevertheless, without providing any evidence of your claims… It’s only your sh*t that stinks.
So come on, man.
You got any evidence of Paul being a “Swindler” or what???
Or are you just all about the bullsh*t?
Heh… yeah, I won’t wait up.
Evidence? You mean apart from the fact that’s he’s collecting vast amounts of money from people who can barely afford it, and not spending it on the campaign they’re donating it for?
And clean up your comments, Ronpaulist. Replacing some vowels with asterisks doesn’t make it o.k. to be unable to express yourself without being sub-literately obscene.
Pogue,
Uh, yeah, I think if you are going to make an address on racism in response to people calling you a racist (as in he has an issue with non whites) you shouldn’t beat around the bush by saying you think racism is bad and then use examples that all are usually applied to non white people. It doesn’t make him a racist, but it sure didn’t make anybody think otherwise. Given his close association with racist fear mongers, that should be understandable.
However, I ask you again, haven’t recent revelations confirmed my point? That filth that wasn’t in someone else who he just happened to have as supporters, but went out under his actual name for decades shown that at minimum he may think it ugly, but not ugly enough to actually as opposed to rhetorically disassociate himself from? I know racists, and some are decent enough people for me to tolerate, but I certainly wouldn’t allow them to publish stuff in my name. With almost anybody else we would call him a racist. Lee may be braver than I am in just saying it, and my reticence just an unwillingness to admit the man hoodwinked me, but it is hardly a stretch.
As for Duke, yeah, when he was trying to be a mainstream politician he was busy framing himself as a non racist, who was just reacting to the depredations of the state and the racists who were using it to oppress people like him. You know, white people. All the racists he talked about were blacks and others. I don’t know how familiar you are with that period in his career, but that is exactly how he sounded. The people he associated himself with, they didn’t represent his views, but it is a free country and all that crap.
Once again, I am not saying he has the same beliefs as David Duke, but he has managed to pick him up as a supporter, to sound like he did when he was going mainstream and have some of the same clues as to what he was all about.
In that kind of situation you need to to be a little less milquetoast. You need to say, I didn’t write that stuff, this man did, and denounce him. Denounce people by name and risk losing their support. I wouldn’t ask that of someone who just happened to have people vote for him, or donate to him, who had those views, but Paul’s problems are way beyond that now. The problem Paul has is that once you strip away the racists, the neo-nazi’s, the confederacy loving Rockwell bunch, the truthers and other whackjobs, he doesn’t have much passion left in his campaign. However, if he was the man of principle he says he is he would, repeatedly, loudly and with no ambiguity or pointing the fingers at targets to make them think “wink, wink, nod, nod, we know why he is doing this.”
So once again, hasn’t the history which has been unearthed in the last few months made my point? How can you say decades of racist filth in his name isn’t evidence?
Yeah, except for the fact that that is NOT evidence.
The song remains the same. You have no evidence.
“Ronpaulist”!? Is that supposed to be some sort of clever insult??? I wouldn’t know, since this is the first I’ve heard of it. Wow, combining his first name with his last. Genius.
And you have the balls to claim that I’m obscene? I’m not the one making baseless claims of fraud.
Not too long ago, Joshua Foust was taken to task about his allegations that Blackwater employees were murderers. Yet you seem to go unscathed as you sit there and accuse a man of fraud when no evidence exists.
All you have is speculation. And a weak speculation at that.
Truth is, you have nothing.
You never had anything. And I suspect you never will.
Prove me wrong though. Put up some kind of evidence that Paul is committing fraud.
Otherwise, you’re still full of shit. (better?)
You can ignore the reality of it all you wish. It’s as plain as day despite your opinion.
You seem to be under the mistaken apprehension that I wish to persuade you to my case. Not so. I’ve seen enough from you to be quite pleased we are in disagreement. I’m happy to keep it that way too.
Unrelated, but thank you for cleaning up the language (except for the ending). It was getting pretty disgusting.
Translation: I have no evidence, so there.
Lee has proven himself to be a worthless hack. All too eager to cast baseless aspersions on those he disagrees with.
And while Joshua Foust was lambasted by MichaelW and Lance for suggesting that the Blackwater employees were murderers without having the evidence to back it up, Lee is seemingly uninhibited to accuse a man of fraud without having any evidence at all. And not a peep from Lance or Michael.
I’m sticking my finger down my throat right now.
Life’s just so unfair isn’t it Pogue? Not to fear, the Ronpaulists have assured me that come the “Day of the Rope” we’ll have some changes around here.
Pogue! [/peterjackson]
Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.
Unfortunately, while I don’t personally ascribe to the notion that Ron Paul is a racist, there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. The problem, of course, is how do you prove a negative.
In my opinion (i.e. I have no facts to back this up), Ron Paul is especially loathe to tell someone what they can or cannot think. This has the perverse consequence of putting him in the position of seeming to acquiesce in the statements of others, despite the fact that his past statements and actions belie any agreement.
That’s just my take, however. I don’t know that Ron Paul isn’t a racist, I just have a really hard time believing it to be the case. Unfortunately, some of the opinions printed in his newsletters leave me with little counter-factual support.
Naturally. And if people wish to believe he is a racist, fine. Racism is in the heart, and it’s really difficult to get in there.
However, Lee is accusing Paul of fraud. Something of course can be proven, or not. And in this case… not.
Unfair?
Seeing as how you deal in it Lee, you should know.
I’m accusing him of raising money he has no intention of spending in the primary election. Ultimately who knows to what purposes he intends to put that money in the future. It’s not a crime to use the money to found a non-profit PAC, fund, or think tank. Which would be my guess (hence my crack about Lew Rockwell as “Director of Ronpaul Institute”).
Amusingly, I should note that you yourself don’t even allege he intends to expend the money in this election. You have submitted as a possible motive that he is raising the money to roll into funding for some future campaign of some sort (comment 7), despite disingenuously raising it for this one. A strange defense I might say.
Hey, you deign to respond to others but not me? Are you still claiming there is no evidence for racism? Or do you mean no proof? I think you owe me an apology for lambasting me for the crime of pointing out that his statements and actions are evidence, that he does hang out with racist nutters, and it is a legitimate question whether he is a racist. Maybe he isn’t, but I certainly have been proven right that he is treading murky ground.
The worst of it Lance, is that being a racist swindler isn’t even the beginning of what’s wrong with Ronpaul. He’s a paranoid conspiracy theorist of the first rank, whose political views verge on the schizophrenic.
Consider for a moment that this is a man who genuinely believes that the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations control a vast conspiratorial shadow government that rules the country through fiat currency. That’s his whole motive for supporting the gold standard incidentally. To fight the hidden “power structure” of the New World Order. To call this merely deranged is to give him an undue compliment.
Hmm.. Isn’t Paul friends with the head of the NAACP? He also quotes MLK Jr. alot….. hmmmm….. I dunno about racist….
To fight the hidden “power structure” of the New World Order. To call this merely deranged is to give him an undue compliment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo
O crap… big bush is a conspiracy nut too…..
“Hmm.. Isn’t Paul friends with the head of the NAACP? He also quotes MLK Jr. alot….. hmmmm….. I dunno about racist….”
I didn’t say he was a racist, I said there was evidence of it. Thus the reason it is a fair question to ask.
By the way, you just gave the David Duke defense, who does the same. Of course, like Duke, Paul manages to find a way to use him in a way that racists would applaud. That doesn’t make the points illegitimate, they usually are not. However, they don’t defend him from charges of racism. When one uses them only in that way, especially in something supposedly showing you are not a racist, then it gives one pause.
I have supported the man in the past, so I have no ax to grind here, but Paul has definitely made me take a closer look at him due to his own words and those he consorts with. Nutters like Rockwell being a case in point.
As for Bush, given the makeup of this blog, exactly what is your point? Seriously, where is there any evidence of Bush love here? Exactly why would Bush believing something make anything more acceptable, even if one bought that their views were anything resembling similar? Know your audience dude.