Fred Thompson and the disturbing need to hunt down gaffes

I didn’t vote for Al Gore, and his behavior and tenor since 2000 has reinforced for me why I am glad he didn’t win, despite the many failings of another candidate I didn’t vote for has displayed since becoming President. However, one of the many irritating things about that race was the large number of things Al Gore was criticized for which were not true, or were based on things that were true but everyone was too busy rolling their eyes over to pay attention to things such as facts, or well founded opinions, or just plain what the man really said. For more on that I suggest Bob Sommersby at the Daily Howler and his “incomparable archives” for a generous sampling, if one sided the other way, of this nonsense.

I don’t know if I’ll vote for Fred Thompson either, and stuff like his marriage amendment nonsense doesn’t help him in my eyes. I don’t expect him not to say things which are not true, or stumble over details, they all do (though John Edwards is occupying a special place in my heart for silly, even jaw dropping, stuff.)  However, can we not make fun of him for things which are true? From Think Progress:

Fred Thompson “puzzled Iowans yesterday” by insisting an Al Qaeda smoking ban was one reason Sunni tribes have broken with al Qaeda:

“They said, ‘You gotta quit smoking,’” Thompson explained to a questioner asking about progress in Iraq during a town hall-style meeting. […]

Thompson’s tale of a smokers’ revolt baffled some in the audience of about 150 who came to decide whether the former Tennessee senator is ready for prime time.

“I don’t know what that was about,” said Jim Moran, 72, who had driven from nearby McCook Lake, S.D.

For the same supposed gaffe Steve Benen at TPM and at The Carpetbagger Report decides Fred doesn’t have a grasp of the issues, Digby claims the statement shows:

the Republicans seem to be trying to nominate someone of equal or greater stupidity and intellectual laziness. (ed. He means as Bush)

The problem? Thompson has it right. It was one of the reasons the populace turned against al Qaeda. So, who has a grasp of the issues Steve? Who has shown them selves to be intellectually lazy Digby? I have read this, and heard this personally from numerous sources, including Michael Yon:

On the evening of the 24th I spoke with a local Iraqi official, Colonel Faik, who said the Muftis would order the severance of the two fingers used to hold a cigarette for any Iraqis caught smoking. Other reports, from here in Diyala and also in Anbar, allege that smokers are murdered by AQI. Most Iraqis smoke and this particular prohibition appeared to have earned the ire of many locals. After an American unit cleared an apartment complex on the 23rd, LTC Smiley, the battalion commander, reported that residents didn’t ask for food and water, but cigarettes. In other parts of Baqubah, people have been celebrating the routing of AQI by lighting up and smoking cigarettes.

Sounds like pretty serious stuff to me and he mentions it again here and here. Sounds like a pretty good reason to turn against al Qaeda to me. Of course, I don’t expect many of these people reads Michael on a regular basis. However, we also find it in major media reports such as on CNN:

Locals say al Qaeda amputated fingers for smoking

[...]

Other civilian and insurgent sources in the towns of Tahrir and neighboring Buhruz said al Qaeda had imposed strict regulations, including a ban on smoking — punishable by the amputation of a finger or hand — and a curfew on citizens walking in the streets after 4 p.m.

What about the New York Times?

“It’s not that they love us Americans,” said one senior administration official. “It’s that Al Qaeda was so heavy-handed, taking out Sunnis just because they were smoking a cigarette. In the end, that may be the best break we’ve gotten in a while.”

And of course, it appeared just yesterday in the Washington Post, you know, the guys with the fact checkers:

Why the sheiks turned remains a point of debate, but it seems clear that the tribes resented al-Qaeda’s efforts to ban smoking and marry local women to build ties to the region.

Not that the Post’s own Emil Steiner bothered to read the article.

Other people calling people stupid because they are too ignorant to know better, the ever ready to do so Oliver Willis, The Blue HeraldSkippy, Lew Rockwell, The Peoples Republic of Seabrook, and Stupid Evil Bastard.

Look, I am not saying all of these people are stupid. However, given the egg on their face for calling Fred stupid, insane, or the full collection of comments his “gaffe” seems in their mind to have deserved, it might make sense to acknowledge that saying something you don’t agree is true in and of itself doesn’t prove much. Otherwise, I would have to conclude that everyone on this list, every commenter who chimed in with cackling glee, is an idiot of the first order. It would have been a silly complaint even if he was wrong, though like many, I might have gotten a chuckle out of it if it weren’t true.

Occasionally gaffes are revealing, but most of the time they are not. For example, in regards to my link on John Edwards, if Edwards had not been able to remember who Castro was, I might have giggled, but it wouldn’t mean much. I routinely draw a blank on people’s names who I know very well. That he didn’t understand what kind of health care system a Communist government has is revealing. Similarly not knowing who the President of Pakistan was, as Bush was roundly derided for while running for President, meant less than nothing. Most gaffes fall into that category, and I tire of it when people make more of it than for giggles. All of us, and all politicians, make these mistakes.

What is also revealing is the  attacking of someone else for something that seems ridiculous at first glance, but is in fact true. That gaffe tells us a lot about the people doing the attacking, that is unless they are willing to admit their mistake, and more importantly, reflect on what that says about them and their willingness to see their political opponents in such a negative light so easily, quickly and with little need to check the issue out. When I hear someone say something that sounds ridiculous, my first instinct is they are less likely to be wrong. My children are notoriously unpicky eaters because I raised them to assume that if something looks and sounds bad, and people eat it, it is quite likely they are eating it because it is delicious. Think crawfish, or shellfish in general. People overcome the ick factor for a reason. Fred Thompson most likely wouldn’t have said something that sounds so trivial in the first place unless it was true. There is quite likely a reasonable explanation when someone claims something that sounds fantastic. That al Qaeda was executing people for smoking is a pretty powerful rationale in fact.

One further thought of a more general nature. The idea that smoking is a trivial matter is the kind of thing people of all persuasions believe  when it comes to what they wish to regulate. One reason I am generally opposed to a large state is that ultimately we are saying it is okay for the state to visit great violence on a person for violating that prohibition or regulation. We think, smoking is bad, regulate it or outlaw it. Drugs, fats in foods, thousands of business practices, and countless regulations impact upon us, and we rarely think about what that means because by and large most of us put up with them. However, many people do not, and many people are ensnared in them for reasons that are fairly benign, and real harm is done to them, their families, and their livelihoods. Because the ultimate consequence, of banning smoking in this instance, is far removed from its enforcement, we often forget that ultimately if someone refuses, even in our society, that fact that the law enables the state to even take someones life is rarely if ever faced. Because al Qaeda enforced the ultimate penalty immediately, or quickly thereafter if resisted, that fact is abundantly clear to them. In fact though, if I refuse to comply, and then refuse to submit to the lesser intermediate steps, the state is forced to either acquiesce or subdue me, including with deadly force.

This is not an attempt at childish equivalence, but rather to point out that if one has that in the back of ones mind one can realize how in totalitarian societies even the most seemingly trivial things can be of great importance. That was true in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Cambodia, Saddam’s Iraq, and under al Qaeda. That might allow us to not jump to conclusions so quickly in the future, and also maybe give many of us a pause before we use the state to enforce our moral, aesthetic and political will upon others. It may not be the same, but it is nevertheless important to think about.

Newsbusters has thoughts as well and so does Paul at Wizbang and Bill Hobbs.

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6 Responses to “Fred Thompson and the disturbing need to hunt down gaffes”

  1. on 11 Sep 2007 at 4:46 am Billy Hollis

    Other people calling people stupid because they are too ignorant to know better, the ever ready to do so Oliver Willis, The Blue Herald, Skippy, Lew Rockwell, The Peoples Republic of Seabrook, and Stupid Evil Bastard.

    As soon as I read the first example of someone slamming Thompson for the remark, I realized the problem. I remembered that I had read about the smoking factor in one of the dispatches from Iraq and that Fred was spot on. And it was obvious that none of the above suspects would be caught dead reading a dispatch from someone on the ground in Iraq, unless that dispatch was from someone sufficiently leftward as to not challenge their preconceptions about how bad the situation is over there. “Michael Yon? Bill Roggio? Bill Ardolino? Michael Totten? Who’s are they?”

  2. on 11 Sep 2007 at 5:38 am Lance

    I was going to post on that. Because, where are all the progressive embeds? I would consider Totten one, but because he keeps reporting things they don’t like he is now not a liberal. It is as if they don’t want to go and find out the complex truth, or hang out there writing things which the men around them know are not true. Even if they did, they would be treated like Totten. Instead we get the Beauchamps of the world. Liars who hide behind anonymity so they can spread manure.

  3. on 11 Sep 2007 at 5:58 pm Les

    I’m sorry, but even if it’s true it’s a pretty stupid answer from Fred Thompson. I can’t say for certain, but I’d be willing to guess that it’s not so much the “you can’t smoke” that they have a problem with so much as the cutting off the fingers method of enforcing it. With all the crap the Iraqi’s are currently putting up with from AQI you’d would think he’d make a point of stressing the torture aspect more so that the restriction on smoking.

    The response as it stands sounds flippant and, quite honestly, stupid. It’s not the sort of thing that would keep me from voting for the man — there are plenty of other more serious reasons I wouldn’t vote for him — but it does nothing to buff his image as having any intelligence.

  4. on 11 Sep 2007 at 6:56 pm Lance

    1. It is true, or at least it is true in the sense that it has been reported and it is as fair to bring up as anything else.

    2. You have no idea of the context. So even if your excuse held any water, you don’t know that. The report didn’t give us any details to judge. We don’t even know the attendees were puzzled, just that the reporter said so. the bloggers mentioned, including you, complaint wasn’t based on it sounding flip, but that it wasn’t true and ridiculous. Smoking is pretty important to many people, just like outlawing beer in Germany would create a backlash.

    3. it was a talk, not a full exegesis. As I said, by the standard you just applied nobody deserves to be president, because nobody can avoid saying true things day after day that one doesn’t give enough explanation for. Don’t you hate it when that kind of thing is done to liberals, and then the people opposing him refuse to admit that he or she had a point? I really get tired of it, and it was tiring when it was turned on Kerry and Gore as well.

    4. You may still think it is stupid, but is it stupider than a bunch of people rolling their eyes at what they consider to be some made up right wing fantasy when in fact it was true? Pardon me if I don’t agree. It isn’t a big deal, as long as you sit back and reflect at how silly it is to try and make hay about such things in the first place. If it wasn’t true, giggle. make a snarky remark, but you have to know it is pretty meaningless. If you don’t, well get a life. There is too much of that kind of thing already, why be more wood on that fire?

  5. on 11 Sep 2007 at 7:24 pm Les

    1. Fair to bring it up? Perhaps, but arguably the least of the concerns compared to many others least of all the punishment involved. Personally I’d probably bring up the repeated beheadings as a good reason that they decided to fight back, but that’s just me.

    2. I never claimed it wasn’t true. I said it was stupid and I stand by the assessment. Having grown up with smokers I’m aware how important the issue is to those who indulge, but even they wouldn’t pick that as the first reason to revolt against AQI. I guess they just don’t have their priorities as straight as Mr. Thompson.

    3. I never said he doesn’t deserve to be president for the comment. I never suggested people shouldn’t vote for him for saying it. I said it makes him look like an idiot. What I’m really sick of is people who claim I said things I didn’t say.

    4. I did giggle and make a snarky remark. That’s pretty much the whole point of my entry. I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I said as much. You’re the one putting a lot of claims in my mouth that aren’t there.

  6. on 11 Sep 2007 at 7:34 pm Lance

    He never said it was the main reason, or I should say we don’t know it from what was printed. It was off the cuff from what I can see, but maybe not.

    You’re the one putting a lot of claims in my mouth that aren’t there.

    Actually that is fair. I don’t think it was stupid, and I gather it was the reporter who made it sound stupid, but you are right. I merely linked to you as one calling people stupid. I wanted people to have a feel for the various comments. I really wasn’t addressing the post to you and most of what I was saying is more properly addressed to others. My apologies.

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