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	<title>Comments on: Amanda&#8217;s Denoument-Update</title>
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	<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/</link>
	<description>Questions through the veil of ignorance</description>
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		<title>By: The Poet Omar</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/comment-page-1/#comment-22673</link>
		<dc:creator>The Poet Omar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=511#comment-22673</guid>
		<description>Ok, my extremely belated take on this matter:

Amanda Marcotte is an anti-religion bigot.  Plain and simple.  Although she has chosen to use Catholicism as her particular punching bag, her disgusting rants can be equally applied to general Christian beliefs (Catholic, EO, Mormon and Protestant) as well as ... Muslim beliefs!  Remember, we also acknowledge the virgin birth, the miracles of Jesus (PBUH), and the holiness of his mother. 

I suspect that as Catholicism is so organized and highly visible in society that it makes a much easier target than say Presbyterianism or Methodism.  At the same time, her defenses of her positions are ludicrous and intellectually disingenous.  She claims that she is a satirist and doesn&#039;t truly mean to insult Catholics (and also insert Christians and Muslims here, too).  I find that hard to believe, especially as that is the very defense that Michael Moore used to cover his Bowling For Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 flicks.  

Satire requires that a writer walk a very fine line and extremely few people in history have demonstrated the balance necessary.  Most satirists become mere ranting hacks like Marcotte and Moore and are deeply incensed when anyone questions their &quot;art.&quot;  They want the best of both worlds, however, as they expect to be appreciated as satirists (and avoid the condemnation that would be in store for them if people took their words literally) and they also expect to be taken seriously enough to affect policy debate.  Sorry, you can&#039;t have it both ways.  Honestly, satire as a form of political expression is best left alone as its pitfalls are many.  A much more effective method of political expression would be actual dialogue, of the give and take sort.  

Marcotte could simply have said, &quot;Hey, I hate Catholicism,&quot; and then listed her specific grievances.  Heck, it worked for Martin Luther.  Instead, she choose to use the foulest language possible, along with shallow caricatures of personalities and beliefs so that she could make herself feel better.  Now that people are calling her on it, she has to take the greatest possible offense, because we have invaded her personal &quot;comfort zone.&quot;  Her bigotry is the foundation of her beliefs and personality and the fact that those things are being challenged represents a direct psychological threat to her.  Is it any wonder that she has taken to victimology and hurling blows left and right against all imagined oppressors?  

Were she a mature, psychologically balanced person, she would acknowledge that her beliefs are biased and that her work is an accurate reflection of those beliefs, not simply poor satire.  She should then have the courage to confront her challengers in an open, honest dialogue with her objections to their beliefs.  That is how rational conversation occurs.  Somehow, though, I just don&#039;t see this happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, my extremely belated take on this matter:</p>
<p>Amanda Marcotte is an anti-religion bigot.  Plain and simple.  Although she has chosen to use Catholicism as her particular punching bag, her disgusting rants can be equally applied to general Christian beliefs (Catholic, EO, Mormon and Protestant) as well as &#8230; Muslim beliefs!  Remember, we also acknowledge the virgin birth, the miracles of Jesus (PBUH), and the holiness of his mother. </p>
<p>I suspect that as Catholicism is so organized and highly visible in society that it makes a much easier target than say Presbyterianism or Methodism.  At the same time, her defenses of her positions are ludicrous and intellectually disingenous.  She claims that she is a satirist and doesn&#8217;t truly mean to insult Catholics (and also insert Christians and Muslims here, too).  I find that hard to believe, especially as that is the very defense that Michael Moore used to cover his Bowling For Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 flicks.  </p>
<p>Satire requires that a writer walk a very fine line and extremely few people in history have demonstrated the balance necessary.  Most satirists become mere ranting hacks like Marcotte and Moore and are deeply incensed when anyone questions their &#8220;art.&#8221;  They want the best of both worlds, however, as they expect to be appreciated as satirists (and avoid the condemnation that would be in store for them if people took their words literally) and they also expect to be taken seriously enough to affect policy debate.  Sorry, you can&#8217;t have it both ways.  Honestly, satire as a form of political expression is best left alone as its pitfalls are many.  A much more effective method of political expression would be actual dialogue, of the give and take sort.  </p>
<p>Marcotte could simply have said, &#8220;Hey, I hate Catholicism,&#8221; and then listed her specific grievances.  Heck, it worked for Martin Luther.  Instead, she choose to use the foulest language possible, along with shallow caricatures of personalities and beliefs so that she could make herself feel better.  Now that people are calling her on it, she has to take the greatest possible offense, because we have invaded her personal &#8220;comfort zone.&#8221;  Her bigotry is the foundation of her beliefs and personality and the fact that those things are being challenged represents a direct psychological threat to her.  Is it any wonder that she has taken to victimology and hurling blows left and right against all imagined oppressors?  </p>
<p>Were she a mature, psychologically balanced person, she would acknowledge that her beliefs are biased and that her work is an accurate reflection of those beliefs, not simply poor satire.  She should then have the courage to confront her challengers in an open, honest dialogue with her objections to their beliefs.  That is how rational conversation occurs.  Somehow, though, I just don&#8217;t see this happening.</p>
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		<title>By: The Conjecturer &#187; News Brief, Smoke Before Fire Edition</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/comment-page-1/#comment-22436</link>
		<dc:creator>The Conjecturer &#187; News Brief, Smoke Before Fire Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=511#comment-22436</guid>
		<description>[...] Lance notes the latest excretable, pathetic example of a lefty blogger confusing &#8220;your views are hateful and counterproductive&#8221; with &#8220;censorship.&#8221; At least Edwards fired the lady. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lance notes the latest excretable, pathetic example of a lefty blogger confusing &#8220;your views are hateful and counterproductive&#8221; with &#8220;censorship.&#8221; At least Edwards fired the lady. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/comment-page-1/#comment-22405</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=511#comment-22405</guid>
		<description>Minor Ripper,

Very funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minor Ripper,</p>
<p>Very funny.</p>
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		<title>By: The Heretik : Everybody Has One</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/comment-page-1/#comment-22391</link>
		<dc:creator>The Heretik : Everybody Has One</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=511#comment-22391</guid>
		<description>[...] And a few more:  Beltway Blogroll, The Politico, A Second Hand Conjecture, Jay Reding.com, The Navel of the Internet, Don Surber, BLACKFIVE, Sister Toldjah, Eunomia and Blue Crab Boulevard [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And a few more:  Beltway Blogroll, The Politico, A Second Hand Conjecture, Jay Reding.com, The Navel of the Internet, Don Surber, BLACKFIVE, Sister Toldjah, Eunomia and Blue Crab Boulevard [...]</p>
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		<title>By: minorripper</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/comment-page-1/#comment-22384</link>
		<dc:creator>minorripper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=511#comment-22384</guid>
		<description>Edwards is shedding the softie,breck girl image though...here&#039;s video proof:
http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/2007/02/john-edwards-gets-tough-with-matt-lauer_08.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edwards is shedding the softie,breck girl image though&#8230;here&#8217;s video proof:<br />
<a href="http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/2007/02/john-edwards-gets-tough-with-matt-lauer_08.html" rel="nofollow">http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/2007/02/john-edwards-gets-tough-with-matt-lauer_08.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robby</title>
		<link>http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2007/02/13/amandas-denoument/comment-page-1/#comment-22377</link>
		<dc:creator>Robby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asecondhandconjecture.com/?p=511#comment-22377</guid>
		<description>Weird. I read the review via your link before moving on to your comments on it, and the part you bolded was the sentence that bugged me the most, too. One of the things this film does best is the moody atmosphere of subtle dread that (to me) strongly conveys how awful and different a world with no children would be. The scene in the abandoned elementary school was particularly powerful in that regard, carrying the suggestion of hundreds of thousands of school buildings rotting away all over the world.

However, I admit reflecting early in the film that a world without kids would have one major benefit--that we wouldn&#039;t get all kinds of crappy laws shoved down our throats with the justification &quot;FOR THE CHILDREN.&quot; Yes, thinking that does make me a bad person.

One of the other things that impressed me about the film was that it was political but it didn&#039;t seem to have a particular axe to grind. However, I suspect that many viewers were only too happy to bring their own axes. And that&#039;s OK; we all do that to some degree. Marcotte&#039;s axe-grinding is just a lot louder and more obvious than most.

And that&#039;s not limited to the left! Check the note about the film at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/?p=3735&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Libertas&lt;/a&gt;, and particularly the comments, for some old-fashioned right-wing axe grinding. Comment #16 is particularly awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weird. I read the review via your link before moving on to your comments on it, and the part you bolded was the sentence that bugged me the most, too. One of the things this film does best is the moody atmosphere of subtle dread that (to me) strongly conveys how awful and different a world with no children would be. The scene in the abandoned elementary school was particularly powerful in that regard, carrying the suggestion of hundreds of thousands of school buildings rotting away all over the world.</p>
<p>However, I admit reflecting early in the film that a world without kids would have one major benefit&#8211;that we wouldn&#8217;t get all kinds of crappy laws shoved down our throats with the justification &#8220;FOR THE CHILDREN.&#8221; Yes, thinking that does make me a bad person.</p>
<p>One of the other things that impressed me about the film was that it was political but it didn&#8217;t seem to have a particular axe to grind. However, I suspect that many viewers were only too happy to bring their own axes. And that&#8217;s OK; we all do that to some degree. Marcotte&#8217;s axe-grinding is just a lot louder and more obvious than most.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s not limited to the left! Check the note about the film at <a href="http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/?p=3735" rel="nofollow">Libertas</a>, and particularly the comments, for some old-fashioned right-wing axe grinding. Comment #16 is particularly awesome.</p>
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